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Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal
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TOPIC: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10399

  • Big Dog
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Gentlemen, I suggest that we contact Greg Fordahl in Seattle. He and his 944 guys have been running Hoosiers for YEARS with SCCA. They have experience with them. Let's find out what they say the heat cycles are.

While I understand that Joe gets 24 to 28 cycles with his RA1's, I have not since I started running with the Big Dogs of our class so I don't see as much of a heat cycle issue as some do but, since we don't know what to really expect from Hoosiers we are just killing electrons until we do.

Lets get some real world information on what Greg and his bunch have found. Heck, if someone needs to test tires, I will bet that that CBuzz guy would show up with me at a track and try out a few. Anyone that wants to come join us for a day or two of testing is welcome. The Mothership is ready.

If Hoosier wants to step up for us, I KNOW that there is a way to transition to them as a spec tire for the time being. As was suggested, each region can swap and share until the RA1's are used up and then switch over as a group. If I have to eat a partial useful life of a set of tires to get back to a spec tire series, I will do so and use them up in practice. If Hoosiers have better life than is being discussed, we should know that.

This is NO FUN. For anyone. Keep the faith. If we need to mark time for another month with a regional quick solution, so be it if it gives us the time to make a better decision. I would HATE to get to a place where we have weight issues for different tires as someone will always think they are being screwed, and they may be right.

Jim "Big Dog" Foxx
Jim Foxx

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10400

Here's a thought, why not run a Toyo street tire? With a treadware of 700, they should outlast the car.
MICHAEL MADUSKE
2009,2010 Southeast 944-SPEC Champion
Last Edit: 13 years, 8 months ago by Sterling Doc.

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10401

Guys, good thoughts.

After further discussions with NASA expressing all these & my concerns late last night, this issue has gone over my head. John promised a decision by the end of the week. They are following this thread so, keep the input coming.
Eric Kuhns

National Director Emeritus

2007, & 2008 National Champion
2011, 2012 2nd

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10402

IN the SE the 944 cup guys run the Hoosiers. They are definitely quicker tires than the toyo's and the contingency is pretty darn nice. I find that they are about 2-3 seconds faster than the toyo's (at least on new tires) and they last about 10-12 sessions before I see drop off on my lap times. They don't drop off as much as the Toyos and seem to stay decent for a few more sessions (I have a set that has 10 sessions and an enduro (3 hour) and they still had me within 2 seconds of my fast lap at Road Atlanta). NOrmally, i get 2-3 good race weekends out of my tires then I use them for testing and practice (and the enduros). I could probably get a lot more out of my tires but I normally run the 3 hour enduros when I race so that kills tire life a lot more than the sprint race weekends

So, the drop off is not as terrible as people say but I do feel strongly that there is an advantage to the Hoosiers. They are definitely quicker tires and more expensive.

**One late addition to my comments, I understand Toyo has been a great advocate to 944 spec class racing, I personally am a fiercely loyal person and believe that you have a great thing with Toyo, don't make a permanent decision as this whole disaster will be cleaned up and things will get back to normal (it may take a good year or longer)but they will be back and they will probably appreciate the support.

Joey Sullivan
Greenville SC (run 944 cup/ GTS 1/ 944spec soon)
Last Edit: 13 years, 8 months ago by joecycles. Reason: remember our sponsors!

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10403

Tell John to take his time, and give us a decision next week. It would be fun to at least get one race in with the Toyo contingency.
-Shannon
Rothmans 944(pictured) is For Sale
Red 944 no. 16, 944 Spec Great Lakes

Re: Spec Tire Rule Change Proposal 13 years, 8 months ago #10404

  • cgktexas
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  • Senior Racer
  • Posts: 155
norman#99 wrote:
This site illustrates the tire pretty well, just not our size:
www.tiresdirect.net/TOYO_Proxes_R1R_195_50R15_82V_P4715C885.cfm

I spoke with Debbie from Toyo today, 888 444 8696 she said the tire does not come in 225x50x15 but does come in 225x45x15 and there is a good supply available, but I would have to call my local Toyo guy. I left Bryan Shakelford a message and haven't heard back on price and his availability.

This site is from NASA's forum from a couple of years ago, drivers have experimented and compared 888's, ra1's with the R1R's, note that most of the cars are higher h/p and more weight than our cars which may not make the results totally accurate for us.
www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26249&start=10


I have found a little info on the R1R performance. From GRM
GRM Texas Toasted Tires wrote:

Part1
The Toyo Proxes R1R really blurs the line between street and race tire. Despite its sticky rubber compound, the Toyo R1R is actually quite streetable, much like the company’s true R-compound tires.
That engineering really shines when you ask an R1R-equipped car to corner. “Awesome grip is the Toyo’s strong point,” Andy explained. “You feel like you are literally glued to the ground.” Impressive for a tire that can be found online for just $124 apiece.
Unfortunately, the Toyo was a bit hard to control at the limit due to its abrupt breakaway manners. Andy noted that pushing the tire over the edge resulted in “a heavy staccato chatter that is hard to modulate due to a lack of feel.”
The Toyo also exhibited the slowest turn-in response, requiring a total reset of driving technique and timing to make use of all that grip. It helped to give the car more lead time in the slalom, but the tire still took too long to react. That hurt the Toyo’s times, which were solidly in third place.
Toyo does offer something that the others don’t, however: a wide variety of 15-inch sizes. In addition to the 205/50R15 size that we tested, the Proxes R1R is also available in 195/50R15, 195/55R15 and 225/45R15.
That 225/45R15 is a great, fat tire that works well on a 15x7.5-inch wheel. Another option is the 205/45R16; it’s about two tenths of an inch taller than the 205/50R15 and 225/45R15, but offers more precise transitional response thanks to its short sidewalls. (By the way, we’ll be testing these various options in an upcoming issue of GRM.)
Conclusion: Leech-like grip, but also just as squirmy at the limit.

Part2
To put it simply, the 225/45R15 Toyo Proxes R1R is big and fat. Tires with wider footprints typically perform well in long, sweeping turns but struggle to keep up in transitional slaloms. The bigger Toyo isn’t a typical tire, however.
Thanks to awesome grip and response, it set fast segment times in our slalom. Unfortunately, sustained cornering was the Toyo’s downfall: The tire tended to overheat and fall off near the ends of long corners, limiting how much power we could put down when coming out of a curve.
During this test session, the Toyo nearly matched the Bridgestone’s times. The tire’s additional width seemed to make little, if any, difference in its final ranking.


A couple of pictures I have seen of the tire tend to show a bit of graining.




In one of the pics, you can see the "made in Japan" marking on the sidewall, so this could play into availability issues down the road as well.
Curt King
Flying Penguin Racing
an OtterHouseProduction (www.otterhouseproductions.com)
Rockwall, TX
#14 1987 944 Spec - in work (and getting closer)
For His Glory Ministry
Lake Pointe Church
Upper Room Dallas
TJT
Autism Speaks
Last Edit: 13 years, 8 months ago by cgktexas. Reason: try to fix links
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