My idea of adding weight as a reward for good performance is to try to overcome the slight inequalities that can arise due to the subtle differences in the build level of our cars. I don't want to beat someone because I have a more fully built car. I want to beat someone because I am a better racer. My goal with this was to make us all better racers by trying to find a way to make all our cars more equal, despite the level of build.[/quote]

If I was Dave or Chuck or ... and I had to carry an extra 100#, I probably wouldn't like it. However if by carrying that extra weight it made me work that much harder at getting that 1st or 2nd place finish, in the long run I might pick up a couple of moves that I could tuck away for Nationals and use them when I really needed them. Perhaps I'd have another RM driver on the podium with me that picked up some things along the way as well.

The next question I have is how would adding weight affect my set-ups? Do I have to change corner weights every time I add weight? Do I do it anyway for each track?

Weston, only you can decide how much you want to "bitch and moan" and how much fun you will have. Racing by definition is as challenging and sometimes frustrating as it gets.

Just my thoughts,
Lee

AvantAddict wrote:


I don't think anyone had any illusion of this being set in stone, as such a change would certainly not be presented in this manner. The problems with this are pretty clear, and others here have mentioned a few of them... We're taking the slowest class and making it slower in order to manufacture a "close" race. Sorry, but that's simply not racing, much less "low cost, equal racing". It also offends the people that this is supposed to benefit, because they want to fairly earn their results just like many of the rest of us want to. I don't see anyone asking for a handout, but I do see people feeling insulted when they are offered one.

As for it helping people develop racecraft, that's the strongest point I see in favor of this, but the fact remains that racecraft isn't going to win Nationals when we're driving a few seconds off of the pace. Removing X amount of weight when we get to Miller isn't going to instantly make everyone faster... it's going to take everyone some time to adapt, which puts us at a disadvantage compared to other regions, even for those drivers who can adapt quickly. And that's assuming that the car is already setup properly for the lower weight. Not to mention, we'd be destroying the value of our regional racing season in the process.

Couple bits of experience here.

Az has been around in this class since 2002. I would say that 75% of us have been in these cars since 2005. That is a long time in one class. Over the years we have discussed much of what you guys have.


Weight penalties -
The idea is sound, but it does create an enviroment that handicaps the fast guys vs requiring the slower ones to develop. Back in 2003 I won about 20 straight races in class. Then I took break tin 2004 and when I came back I had to work for every position. The class skill level had improved that much. Right now I am in the lead pack for most of my local races, but not at the very front. I like to know my position vs the other drivers straight up. I dont want to be beating a guy like Norm only because he has to carry 100 lbs more than me. I want to beat him straight up and this sentiment is shared by nealy all the drivers. Guys like Norm are a benchmark and knowing your lap time vs theirs give you a measuring stick on your own performance. So while we in Az tossed this idea around in 2003 and 2004 we never went with it. Plus it can be hard to proper determine weights if a slower racer wins because the fast guys did not show or had a mechanical.


- Drops, Cross overs and Nationals.
We in Az have had crossovers since 2003 mostly with So-cal. We have always tried to have these count for points, but at the same time have enoigh drops to cover them. This means you don't need to tow a long way to stay in your local hunt. There are times we add in night races or short enduros as well. These have always counted for points, but again we have drops to cover them. So in effect you get a bounus if you do well, but it will not hurt you if you don't do well or can't make it. We did the same for Nationals. We scored it as a single race for single points and had enough drops to cover it. Right now out current local series points leader is close to winning the region championship. He has either finished first or second in each regionl race, but could not make nationals, our so-cal crossover and had a mechanical that took him out for one event. Even so he can wrap up the championship at our final race weekend over thankgiving. Point is that he has had ample chance to both win locally and yet not oversteach his budget for long tows.

One thing do like is drops as percent of total races. One of things I struggle with allow for enough drops to make sense, but also have enough races to make a proper championship. The percentage thing is nice to create more structure around that as our season can vary in length.

This should have been a different thread ... but.

weight rewards is not part of Nationals . I'm not sure what my plans are for September next year. So with that in mind I want to focus on what makes me happy and that's racing here in the RMR !

Back in August at PPIR Dirks and Eban were fixing cars and could not make the event, so I did some experimenting with weight rewards. On Saturday I was over weight then on Sunday I was even more overweight. The racing was GREAT that weekend and on Sunday I ran .6 seconds faster than on Saturday . ? why because I was driving like Der Kommissar at MPH trying to pass Dave and trying to catch Steve. This year I also ran with my spare tire in at most events even with my tank empty my car is over weight with the spare in. WHY . because I don't give a hoot (keepin it clean) about second place in the championship points I want to fight like hell to keep Dirks and Eban and Dave behind me at Pueblo ! I want to run for my life while Shane and I trade positions twice per lap !

one way of making that happen is weight rewards . are there other ideas ... yep . more to come .

If we run rewards weight we could put in passenger seats in those front running cars , then they could show me how to go faster . ? The instructors who drive for free in HPDE 4 that is .

944cer wrote:


Part of what I was getting at is that I know I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about certain things, just that sometimes I'm the only one who speaks up about it. People can write me off as some habitual complainer or attack my arguments, but that doesn't change the fact there's a problem that needs to be addressed. It seems like I'm getting more grief than it's worth for speaking up, so maybe I should just be silent, let the problem continue to grow, and then it can be a "surprise" when a bunch of people are pissed off and leave without saying a word. I see NASA already experienced some of that this year with the tire nonsense.


I enjoy the challenge of racing... that's why I'm here. What I really don't enjoy is repeatedly being put at an uneven disadvantage. After all the crap I've been through over the past two seasons, I don't have any patience for screwing around. I've spent two seasons "playing" and trying to have fun without being able to run where I should be, and I'm completely burnt out with that. It's one thing to do that at an event or two, or get screwed over by bad luck on occasion, but it gets old really fast when something knocks me down damn near every event. I haven't had a race weekend that I felt very good about since March of 2008... I didn't even do all that well then, but I finished where I should have at that time, and I was happy with that. The key to doing better was more in driver development, than overcoming stupid BS that I shouldn't have to deal with in the first place.

I just want real, honest, races. I want the starting and finishing positions that I earned, fair and square. That's what has value to me and would validate all the pain of 2008 & 2009, otherwise there really isn't any point for me. I've been hanging on in the hopes that I'd have a good race weekend again, but if it's going to be clear that wont happen, then I suppose I might as well just cut my losses and stop now...