Dan are you saying that .5hp is worth 20 seconds in half a race?

If that is the case then all cars have to be exactly the same HP or there is a huge percieved unfairness.

cbuzzetti wrote:


I agree 3-5 hp can be overcome. However at 10 hp the situation changes. This cap will keep a range effectivly at 3-5 hp for anyone that attempts to build a good working motor. Some guys will have less HP than this due to old tired motors, but it should not a special motor and special builder to get there.

The numbers proposed get us to reasonble limit where a typical build will yeild a motor capable of performing well. It should also prevent some from getting "lucky" with powerfull motor and getting dinged. The only way I see of running foul of the limits is by working every last detail.

Save that effort for the chassis set-up if you want to work that hard.

I took the money for my Evelyn Woods speed reading course and spent it on racing, unfortunately for this thread.


First, thank you Eric and all of the regional directors for working this out. I know for a fact as we all do what the intent of the class was when developed 10 years ago, it is also a fact that we live in a democratic world which is a good thing and when the masses want change, it should be allowed. It's also a fact that Joe Paluch our regional director knows his racers and what the majority of us want with regards to hp/tq and I do not know for a fact, but I feel for sure that all of the regional directors know what the majority of their drivers want which is pretty evident in this thread, 12 racers have commented so far with 10 for the cap and 2 not for the cap. I know this isn't scientific, but it has to make you realize that there is a better chance that the regional directors and Eric have a good sense of what we want as a whole.


I am obviously for equalizing these cars as much as we possibly can, all I is see here is good news, there are very good points made to the negatives of having a cap. To keep this thread a bit more simple and to the point, since it is 100% about equalizing hp/tq, after everybody has their questions answered, let's start another thread with regards to equalizing the suspension etc...Also another great thread to start would be about drivers ability.


How cool is it, that if your at the limit of the cap, all you have to do is use a heavier oil to make yourself safe from going over and while doing that, your giving your motor more protection. As mentioned and from what I have seen, this cap effects very few cars, I would guess in the whole country maybe less than 10 cars. But it would be hard to not agree with the way things have been going, without a cap that number would grow.


One of my favorites is, who wants to be invited to a spoon fight and have a few show up with shovels?


Funny that Eric used my car as an example of being at 135hp racing a car at 144, here is another fact, one race weekend I went on a dyno just as another car came of, I started at 128hp and with a couple of runs adjusting the set screw in the ECU, not AFM, we got it up to 135/134, that totals 269, the car ahead of me totaled 292 hp/tq. That has the potential to put a whole lot of gone between you and them!!!! This is a great rule to have in any spec series, rule makers can't possibly think of every possible way to make power to put into the rules books, so this keeps it simple, spend a million dollars and million hours on your car if you want, just show up race weekend with 138/138 and have fun!


Thanks again on a great job keeping hp/tq equal!

C Buzz, let me help you with some math. 141-133= 8hp difference, not 5. And yes, in a 45 minute race, with 2 long straight-aways (one on an incline) I can tell you, 8hp was a HUGE deficit. I dont care how great of a driver you are. It makes a difference. Since nats, I switched to thinner oil (which seemed to gain an hp or two. On the dyno, I gained 5hp from tuning the AFM (which was way out of whack). Take the tune (gain of 5hp), and the oil change (1-2hp) and I'm up to 141. Give or take 1-2 hp from dyno difference.
Of course there's no way to making racing perfectly equal. But I personally am not interested in finding the best motor builder in the country, and spending lots of money to make more power than everyone. I'd like for anyone to be able to have a decent rebuilt motor be competitive.

dpRacing Dan,

Let me help even further. As I read the original post it says 0.5 hp, not 5 hp

It's interesting, because we share all our data in the MW, and spend a lot of time on it each weekend. We are all about driver improvement. This puts to bed most of the "I'm being out-motored" worries. We all learn something, because each guy has their strengths, and we all learn from each other. It had made the racing very good. It's a shame that Neal got collected in the GTS race, as I'd say he was the odds on favorite going in. he is also our data guru.

Using Traqmate data, and with coaching, Dan has progressed from a mid pack guy to one of the best. He had a brilliant qualifying race at Nationals, where he beat our current National Champion. He got a great start to get by, made it very hard to pass, and made up just enough under braking to keep ahead for the 15 minutes it took. A heroic effort that overcame a significant HP deficit. It is key that he didn't have to make a pass, and the race was short. In the 45 minute Championship race, starting from behind, Dan didn't have a prayer. HP never goes away, but tires eventually do when you are having to drive that much harder than the next guy.

Dan found the HP, and I hope more guys do with dyno testing. He he my low compression motor from last year, which was a serious effort at making a LC motor competitive. Many solid motors just don't have that potential, and are stuck where Dan is, w/o an expensive rebuild.