Hi Rick, sorry about your engine at Nats.

You were a contender for a podium finish IMO.

I was asking about the NASA supplied Traqmates. I had one in my car for 944 and GTS1.

Anyone else?

Charlie,
Top 4 on grid for the start of main race.

That meant Dirks, Palmer, Buzzetti and Griffith.

Chuck has all the data. The big question is can we use this type information to improve the class (compliance, competitiveness, etc)? If so what should be done?


So far we directors are starting to talk about it. We will let everyone know where this is going once we have taken a good look at it. Too early right now.

Thanks Joe, just looking to see how that played out.

With 4 systems running in the same race you should also be able to see how accurate the traqmate is.

What we have in this class today is not what attracted most of us to join. It's neither low cost, nor equal, racing. It seems that the suspension stuff is pretty well under control and our main problem is drivetrain...

I'd propose that we bring certified dyno's into the equation and determine minimum weight based on both whp and torque, and then maybe have a weight penalty for LSD's (or a reward for open diff's).

If people are confident in their driving, or honestly want a fair race, then why is there any reason to oppose having the same power-to-weight ratio as your competitors? If we do that, then we kill this stupid arms race of building our engines. I understand that change is difficult to sell, but we've already established that things are getting ridiculous and uneven, so let's do something about it... Negligence isn't an answer.

I think that having power to weight limits is not a bad thing to consider, if it could be made to work. Theoretically, it certainly enforces the 'equal cars' goal that most of us support (assuming the limits are kept reasonable).

Something we'll need to deal with there, though, is the fact that measuring this requires the use of 2 different instruments that would need to be properly calibrated and used. At Nationals, I know of one 944 that rolled over the scales twice over the period of just a few seconds with no changes, and came back with a 7 pound variance between readings. I also heard other stories of interesting/inconsistent experiences at the scales.

A quick look at the CMC board will show some interesing stories about the dyno at Nationals and how it was used - some guys were showing really high numbers and had to de-tune (not because they brought cheater cars to Nationals, but because of how that particular dyno was reading during that particular pull), others had stories of the fan being blown into difference places on different cars (some straight into the airbox, and some over the radiator), and still others had lots of other variations in car and dyno temps from one run to the next that certainly affected results.

Not a reason to not talk further about power-weight, but something to keep in mind during the discussion. In-region, this could be managed relatively easily; but if we're concerned about Nationals (which I have to think we are, given how soon after the event this discussion is coming up), it could be a little trickier.

Weston,

All these things are being looked into, for the concerns you cite.

Doing this right is not as simple as it seems. Requiring dynos adds cost as well, to everyone, on an ongoing basis. Dynos can be manipulated, and with our low HP cars, even 10 HP means something. Equalizing power to weight still does not make cars nessarily equal. Those intent on spending lots of money could build a heavy/high HP car for fast/high speed tracks, and a light/low HP car for tight tracks. Dynos have not seemed to make 944 Cup more fair or even, just make the cheating more creative. If we go there, we'd need how to figure out to do it better...

All that said, the dyno option may be needed, but only after some careful consideration of the upsides & downsides.

Last week in the Midwest we had everyone warmup & qualify in someone else's car. It was a very interesting exercise. For us, it didn't change who qualified where (faster guys still went fast in the slower cars), but drivers learned a lot about car set up through this. It reinforced that this is still a drivers class.

Here's a thought:
Maybe we should have Dirks drive every car, and equalize the cars based on his best laptime. I trust him more than a dyno, and he's cheaper.